E52: Told He’d Never Work Again… He Proved Everyone Wrong (Incredible Story) with Ken Kunken

After a devastating football injury left him paralyzed at 20, Ken Kunken was told his life would be limited—if not over. Instead, he became a trailblazing quadriplegic lawyer, Cornell graduate, and father of triplets.

In this powerful episode, we unpack resilience, identity, and the mindset shift that turns limitations into purpose. If you’ve ever been doubted, labeled, or underestimated—this story will change how you see yourself.

Connect with Ken:

https://kenkunken.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Imagine getting turned down and looked at differently, not because of your intelligence, your character, or your capability, but because of how you physically look. For most people, that would be enough to turn away. But not Ken. Ken Kunkin has faced that reality head on, and instead of shrinking, he expanded beyond every limitation placed on him. He's built a fulfilling life, not in spite of his disability, but by refusing to let it define what's possible. This conversation challenges how we judge others and how we see ourselves. Let's roll right in. All right, welcome to the Works Sucks But I Like It podcast. Today we have Ken Cunkin. He broke his neck in 1970 playing football for Cornell University and is the first quadriplegic to graduate from Cornell. His book, I Dream of Things That Never Were, the Ken Cuncan Story. He's been living life still to the fullest as a quadriplegic lawyer and father of triplets. Ken, welcome to the show. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Thank you for having me as your guest.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Now I'm really excited today, Ken, to kind of walk through your experience. But first question I ask guests, Ken, is how do you define work today? How do you define it?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Well, for me, it's doing something that you like to do that hopefully will not only be productive for yourself, but productive for others and hopefully be able to help others as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

So how does that look for you today, Ken, with applying that definition of work?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Well, I would go back to my first job after my injury. Uh I worked as a vocational rehabilitation counselor to help other individuals who had disabilities. And that really changed my life. Because for one, it gave me the increased self-esteem and self-confidence and feelings of self-worth that I could still make a difference in other people's lives, that despite my imitation, my excuse me, my limitations and my physical disability, I was still in a position where I could help others. And I might add that when I was first in the rehabilitation facility, uh, they had a pamphlet that they put out of what type of work you could go into with my type of disability. And the only type of work that I saw back then was that someday I could sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone. And that really bothered me. I felt there was still a lot more I could do, and I wanted to show myself as well as others that I would not be as limited as they felt I would be.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

No, I love that, Ken. We'll certainly dive into the amazing things you've done out throughout your lifetime. I know the listeners really want to hear, you know, that story of how you broke your neck. Can you walk us through the events, what sucked about it, and let's just start with that.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Okay. Well, it was in 1970. I was 20 years old, and I was at the beginning of my junior year at Cornell University, where I was studying industrial engineering. And I was playing on their lightweight football team. It was also called 150-pound football. And only a limited number of schools had that type of league, where two days before the game, you had to weigh in at 154 pounds or less to be able to play. So it was a special league, uh, you know, for people lighter than the most people that were playing on the heavyweight teams. And I was playing in a game against Columbia, and on a kickoff, I ran down the field, tackled the ball carrier, and when I did, I broke my neck and severely damaged my spinal cord. And as a result, I'm almost totally paralyzed. I'm a quadriplegic, and I have just very limited movement below my shoulders.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

So, Ken, I mean, up to that point, right? College kind of helps, I mean, all these points help define our lives. How did you reconstruct your identity from, you know, getting into that that that accident?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Well, that was incredibly difficult. Um, before my injury, if somebody would have asked me to describe myself, I remember that I was once asked to describe myself uh way back in high school. And I remember saying, you know, back then, uh I started on the varsity football team, I started on the varsity wrestling team, I played in three different softball leagues, I worked during the summer as a lifeguard, and I was a pretty decent student as well. And that was kind of the way I would describe myself, my athletic abilities first, and the fact that I was a decent student would come later. So having my accident where now I had virtually no movement and was completely dependent on my intellectual ability was extremely not only difficult, but quite a transition I had to make. And it was really difficult to look ahead and try and think how I could still lead a re a productive, rewarding, and happy life.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Aaron Ross Powell What emotions were going through you, Ken, at that time of this realization about you needing to, again, reconstruct this identity? What kind of emotions were stirring in you?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Well, for one, I thought it was just one long nightmare. I figured this can't really be true. And I didn't really know of any other person who had a spinal cord injury similar to mine. And keep in mind, I got hurt about 25 years before Christopher Reeves' devastating injury. So you didn't hear much about spinal cord injuries when I was injured. And in fact, one of the reasons why uh you didn't hear much was because doctors felt an injury such as mine, I probably wouldn't survive. The doctors told my family I probably wouldn't live through the week, and that if I did, my life expectancy would only be between five and nine years, and I'd probably end up living that time in a nursing home. Now, this was also well before uh the Americans with Disabilities Act took effect, where uh public facilities needed to be made more accessible to people with disabilities, so you didn't see many people out in public with disabilities. So it was a very difficult, very different world back.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

So, Ken, one of the things we'd like to talk about on the show is that success is not a matter of good luck, it's good skills. Walk us through the skill of getting through this nightmare into now living more of a dream life that you have now.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Well, you know, I I was often treated as if I was a child, that once I broke my neck, I was treated like I didn't have a brain in my head for some reason. And it was really strange. Here I was studying engineering at one of the most prestigious engineering colleges in the country. And suddenly because I had a physical disability and not an intellectual one, uh I was treated very differently by everybody. Um and I know I had a vocational counselor that encouraged me. She said, you know, don't let people treat you like you're an invalid. I mean, after all, what does the word invalid mean if you separate that word into two syllables? Invalid, um, I believe my life still had value. And I was determined to live a life that not only had value, but had meaning, and that would be still productive and rewarding.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Aaron Ross Powell So would you say, Ken, that the skill is like a matter of juggling these expectations, or others saw you as, you know, this sort of invalid. What was the skill that you were kind of developing? Like, I guess building that sort of confidence of your own expectation of what you could do?

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Aaron Powell Boy, that was part of it, which was really difficult because I wasn't sure what I could do. And I didn't know of any other role models out there at the time that I could look to and say, you can still do things. And it seemed like I was surrounded by a lot of naysayers that would basically say, you know, you have this disability, accept it. There is very little that you could do. And I was convinced there was more I could do, and I was determined to prove those people wrong.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

I love that. So how did you become so positive amidst this nightmare, this negativity, right? I think that's a really important thing for listeners to hear how you've developed this muscle of being positive in your life.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

That was definitely attributable to my family. I was so so uh lucky to have a very supportive family. And by family, I'm not talking about just the immediate family. I'm talking about aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, everybody that chipped in to continue to provide me encouragement and support and keep assuring me that there was still a lot I could do.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

No, that's great. So, Ken, I'm curious too. So, you know, football and sports, you know, we'd have this idea of taking risks. Do you feel that when you had that accident, were you kind of hesitant to take risks, take on challenges? How did you how do you look at that now?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

You know Do you play it safe, I guess? I was uh twenty years old, and like many tweet 20-year-olds, I believed I was invincible. You know, when you're 20, you don't believe anything bad could happen to you. I was convinced there was nothing that actually could happen to me that could be devastating, such as this type of injury. So I you know, I knew a lot of people did have injuries playing football, but most of those injuries were relatively minor. I never thought it could be an injury such as mine.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

No, interesting. So I guess Ken, how I don't want to formulate this.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

So you've got your family, you've got your support system, you got, you know, your willingness to take on the risks. How did you sort of merge the two together? I guess how did you find the family to give you the support to take on these challenges? You said that people were looking at you differently because you had this physical disability. How did you start pulling in together these people into your life so you could start taking on these kind of risks, if you will?

SPEAKER_00 10:41

You know, I remember speaking to some people in the medical profession, and a number of them were saying, you know, you're just not accepting your injury. And they were right. I believed that I could just ignore my injury and go out and do the things that I was planning on doing before my injury. And they thought that was the wrong way of adjusting to your injury. I'm convinced that was the better way to adjust. I didn't want to be limited by my injury. I wanted to push the boundaries and do as much as I could with what I had to work with and prove everybody wrong that there was still a lot I could do.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Why do you think people suffer today, Ken, like trying to be this perfectionist in all aspects, whether it be physically, mentally? Like, why is it important to embrace sort of our, I don't call it, I guess, our limitations?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Well, I think it's important for everybody to try and exceed their limitations. You know, don't be satisfied by the status quo. I remember I was looking at a small caption in a cartoon where they showed a pussycat looking in the mirror and seeing himself as a lion when he saw his reflection. And I feel that's how you need to feel about yourself. You need to feel that you could accomplish anything you set your mind to. And sometimes I felt if mistakes are going to be made, I want them to be my mistakes. I don't want to be limited by what other people tell me I can do. I want to be able to decide for myself, try different things, and see exactly what I can still do with my life.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

So I guess, Ken, did you have to during certain times of spiritual life, have you thought about, oh, if my life was this way, it would have been better? How have you kind of resolved that? I mean, you're kind of talking about it, right, accepting your limitations and exceeding it. But walk us through some times where it's come up again and you've had to like kind of quiet that voice.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Well, I think, you know, what would I have done had I not had my disability? You know, what type of career would I have gone into? What type of personal life would I have had? Um, and it was difficult to think about and to think where I would have been then and where I am now. I mean, before my injury, I was considered myself a bit of an introvert. You know, I'd sit in the very back of a large lecture, never raise my hand, hoped nobody would notice me. And now suddenly, wherever I went, I was being stared at because you didn't see many people in my condition in public. And I needed to ask for everything that I needed because I couldn't do it myself. So it changed me very much in the way I had to act, you know, be just on a personal level with me and with others and become adjusted to it. Um It was also strange because I got a lot of publicity after my injury. And I had to adjust to what that was like and have even more people staring at me wherever I went. And I had to do my best to keep a positive attitude.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Aaron Ross Powell Now, publicity in the sense of what? Can you uh describe more of this publicity?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Well, for one, when I went back to Cornell, everybody was sort of shocked to see somebody in my condition at Cornell. I mean, Cornell was one of the least accessible places you could have gone. It's on a very hilly terrain, uh on a very mountainous uh facility, you know, it's in upstate New York, the weather's not very good, and there was not one ramp or curb cut on the entire campus. So one of my buildings, uh, one of my classes had 16 steps to get in that I had to go up three times a week. And my dorm room had 10 steps just to get in. On my first day of classes, I had to be pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps. And I was certainly very noticeable being pushed around the campus as being, you know, somebody in a wheelchair who not only couldn't use their legs, but couldn't use their arms as well. And I constantly needed to ask for help.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

So I just want to get the timeline straight here, Ken. So you had the injury in 1970, and then you left the campus and then returned to get to earn that engineering degree. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, well, what happened was after my injury, I spent the next nine months and twenty days in various hospitals and rehabilitation centers. And I don't think there was anybody that felt there was ever a chance I'd return to Cornell. But that was my goal to return to school, and not just us school, but to return to Cornell because I loved it up there before I was injured. So I wanted to get back up there, resume my life the way it had been, where, you know, I had friends in my fraternity, friends on the football field, and I wanted to do everything that I would have done had I not had my injury.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

So I have to ask, Ken, what are your thoughts with football today?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Well, I watch it every Sunday. I'm an avid New York Jets fan. Uh so I get frustrated being a spectator. Um, but I'm I certainly still watch it. In fact, when I was in the hospital, uh originally I was, of course, in the intensive care unit. But when I was moved finally to a private room and was finally able to get a television in my room, the first thing that I watched was a football game.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

What were your emotions with that? Can you watch do you remember that? What were your emotions when you watched it?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

My first instinct was I wanted to be back out there playing. You know, I I kept trying to deny the fact that my injury was going to be permanent, you know. I mean, my family seemed to be upset that I was even watching it on television. But, you know, I I still loved the game. In fact, you know, when you play in college football, they film the games. And one of the first things I asked was, could they show me the film of my game and how I got injured? And that was one of the first things that I saw in the hospital.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

Okay, what were your thoughts with that? Holy smokes. Did they have the actual video view?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, the actual film. And, you know, when they threaded the uh camera and the projector, you know, I know my grandparents were busy and they left the room. They didn't even want to be up there to watch me watching it. But I wanted to see exactly what happened. And as it, you know, the film progressed and got closer to my injury, I started to really worry that I was going to pass out. I didn't know how I'd react to seeing myself break my neck. But, you know, when it came on the film, I somehow managed to keep my eyes open. And it looked like a good tackle. I didn't know why I got hurt. So I asked the coach to run it again, and then again, and then again. I think we ran it, I think, five or six times that first day. And I still don't see why that resulted in my injury.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Really sort of a freak accident. Yes. That's crazy. That's crazy. So, Ken, I love the fact that you have your degree in engineering. I'm also an engineer as well. What have you taken from that engineering degree and applied in your life?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah, that's a good question. I would say the simple answer is that it was a mistake. Really? I was always very good at math, and in high school, my guidance counselor said if you're good in math, you should be an engineer. That was his advice. Uh, that did not turn out to be be the case for me. Uh, while I was good in math, I struggled with physics and chemistry and all the sciences that went involved involved with it. So it was particularly difficult after my injury when I went back to continue an engineering. I mean, this was well before the age of laptop computers. Uh and, you know, back then we were using slide rules. We weren't even using calculators. Uh, and I had a lot of difficulty, you know, working, going through as a student in engineering. And I was fortunate I had a psychology professor that I was taking as an elective, and he suggested I may be better off pursuing a career in psychology and counseling. So with his advice, I decided to pursue a master's degree. And I continued at Cornell, where I earned a master's degree in counseling and student personnel administration, and I became the first quadriplegic to ever earn a graduate degree from Cornell. And then to increase my counseling credentials, I went to Columbia University, which coincidentally was the school I was injured playing against, and I earned my second master's degree. This one was in psychological counseling and rehabilitation. And I decided to look for a job in the rehabilitation counseling field. Uh, and to my dismay, no one would hire me. I looked for a job for a year, mailed out more than 200 resumes. It seemed everyone felt I was just too disabled to work. Tony, I was even turned down when I offered to volunteer my services.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Really?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

In fact, when I started that second master's degree, I met with my counselor who told me right on the first day, despite what they were teaching there, people in the field would be very hesitant to hire somebody with my disability. So that's how I began. But I was fortunate that I found one organization willing to give me the opportunity to show what I could do. And that organization was on Long Island. It's called Abilities Incorporated, which was part of what was then called the Human Resources Center, and it's now called the Viscarty Center, after its founder, Dr. Henry Viscarty Jr., and they hired me to work as a vocational rehabilitation counselor for other individuals who had disabilities.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

No, I love that story, Ken. It made me think of the time when I was called a failure in a job interview because I dropped out of grad school. And um, but I love how someone saw the potential in you and what a story you have of looking at people now in terms of potential and not as limitations, right? That's really, really amazing.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Absolutely. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

So one question, I just want to, again, follow the timeline here of your life here. You got into law, right? I okay. So how do we go from engineering to psychology now to law?

SPEAKER_00 21:21

That's a good question, especially because I was working as a vocational counselor. Yeah. I kept changing fields. But, you know, I loved my job as a rehab counselor. Uh, it really did a lot for my self-esteem and my self-confidence. And they kept expanding my duties and responsibilities. One of my duties was to speak before groups and organizations concerning affirmative action and non discrimination for people with disabilities. And often after my talks, I would be asked questions. And while I would certainly try my best to respond appropriately, I was always careful. Now, at the time, I actually had a brother who was in law school and actually working as a lawyer by then, and I'd watch him in court, and I thought it looked very interesting. And, you know, I started to think there's no reason why I couldn't become that lawyer. So I decided to leave my job and go to law school.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

I love it. So walk us through, Ken. Now you're going to law school, you got the law degree. How are you now applying that in your life?

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Well, at my brother's suggestion, I did an internship at the district attorney's office. And I actually f fell in love with the job. And of course it was particularly strange, because here my brother was working as a defense attorney at the time. He recommended I do an internship as a prosecutor, and I really enjoyed it a lot. But in addition, physically, it seemed like it would be a good fit for me because here your office was in the same building as the courthouse. You had uh, you know, a large office to help you. You had paralegals, secretaries, investigators, you know, detectives, police, student interns. Physically, you know, it seemed like the right place to work. And I love to work as an intern. So I applied for a full-time job with the office when I graduated. And I thought it took a lot of guts on their part to hire me. I mean, I'm the first quadriplegic to ever work as an assistant district attorney on Long Island. And here I was, they were hiring me to be a trial attorney. I love all these firsts. An introvert, you know, and having to speak before large groups of people at times. And uh it was a good career move, but I I still think back and I'm surprised I actually did it.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

I love it, Ken. Sorry, so the the Olympics, the winter Olympics just finished up, right? And you're talking about all these firsts, and I'm just picturing like you winning all these kind of gold medals for all these first things you've done as a quadruple legic. So again, hats off, man, to that excellence. Thanks. So I want to touch up on your book because as an author myself, I can appreciate the work, the effort, everything involved in writing a book. So walk us through, Ken, why you chose the title I Dream of Things That Never Were.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Well, that's a good question. What happened was six months after my injury, I was asked to testify before a United States Health Subcommittee chaired by Senator Edward Kennedy. And eight days after my testimony, Senator Kennedy sent me a glass paperweight in the mail that had an inscription on it that the Senator said his late brother Robert Kennedy liked very much. And the inscription read, Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream of things that never were and say why not. And that's where I got the title of my book, I dream of things that never were, the Ken Kunkin story. Because I felt following my injury, I kept dreaming of things that people told me were impossible, that never were, that I believed I could still do.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

I love it. So, Ken, if people want to pick up this book and read it, what is one thing that they're going to take away from this story of yours, other than what we've gone through, which is amazing?

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Basically that nothing's impossible to never give up, not to listen to the naysayers. What's important is what you believe you can do, that you need to believe in yourself. And with the right help and support system and opportunities, there's an awful lot you can do to not only make your life more productive, but to help others as well, which I believe is so important.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

No, I love that, Ken. I almost forgot here. I asked this question I want to definitely ask you here. So this is, of course, the work sucks, but I like it podcast. What is one thing that sucks and how are you making it not suck today? I know that's kind of like a joke as we talked about here, but what is that one thing that sucks today for you, and what are you doing to make it not suck?

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Actually, let me answer it by going back to when I first started at the district attorney's office. Here I had gone through three law, three years of law school that I completed in the standard three-year time period. I passed a very difficult New York State bar exam the first time that I took it. I began my work by going through a four-week, very intensive training program where they taught us all aspects of trial techniques. And I was so excited to go to court my first day, only to find I couldn't fit through the swinging doorways in the courtroom. They were too narrow to allow me to get through in my electric wheelchair. Are you kidding me? I couldn't believe after going through all this to get this job, I couldn't even fit through the doorways in the courtroom. So I would say that's one thing that definitely sucks.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

How did you get in? How did I'm curious now? Did they have to modify it?

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah, they did. First, they had to take off the swinging doors and the hinges to it, and then eventually they widened the doorways in the courtroom. I might add that my first assignment was to our traffic court bureau, which was on the second floor of a neighboring building. Uh and I received my first promotion after just three days, Tony, because the elevator was broken and no one knew when it would be fixed. That's how I got my first promotion.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

He told me the elevator.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Love it. I love it, Ken. Well, your story has been definitely inspiring. Thank you so much, Ken. I'm inspired by it. If listeners of the show want to find that book or learn more about your story, where's a good place for them to land?

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Well, they could go on my website, which is KenCumkin.com, and that will tell you a number of different ways to buy the book. Uh, you know, probably the one most people go to is at Amazon. It's being sold on Amazon. It's actually in the Cornell University bookstore, but it'll mention other ways to purchase the book as well.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Awesome. Well, Ken, thank you so much for sharing your story today on the show. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Thank you, Tony.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

We often describe ourselves by what we do or how we move through the world. And because of that, we get judged, sometimes harshly, as we heard. But what struck me in this conversation is just how shallow that perspective can be. It makes me wonder, what would those same people say about Ken now, knowing everything he's achieved and continues to achieve? It reminded me of a time when I was called a failure in a job interview and how wrong that turned out to be. Because success isn't a matter of good luck, as we know. It's a matter of good skill. And Ken said something that really stuck with me. When you look in the mirror, what do you see? The cat or the lion? That's the skill today. How do you see yourself? Because that's what matters most. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next time.