E68: How Embracing Usefulness Over Status Can Lead to Authenticity and Happiness with Chip Scholz

Chip Scholz transformed his life by embracing usefulness over status after a career wake-up call. This episode explores his journey of finding purpose through simple tools like a lathe and pocket knife, offering profound lessons on living intentionally and authentically. 

Chip shares insights on mindfulness, such as box breathing and recognizing everyday gifts, to help manage anxiety and enhance emotional resilience. His engaging stories challenge us to live more purposefully, highlighting the power of authenticity in a world obsessed with image. Tune in to learn how to craft a more mindful routine and reignite joy in your work and relationships.

Connect with Chip:

https://scholzandassociates.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Somewhere along the line, someone missed their kid's soccer game, looked around at the stress, the overtime, the constant grind, and that phrase work life balance was born. Our guest today has a different way of looking at life. Simple, practical, and grounded. For him, the pocket knife symbolizes readiness. Be prepared, adapt, handle what's in front of you. And the lathe, that's identity, a tool that shapes things with precision, patience, and purpose. In a lot of ways, that's how Chip sees people too. We're all shaping ourselves to the work we do and the choices we make. Let's roll right in. All right, welcome to the Work Sucks But I Like It podcast. Today we have Chip Scholes. He describes himself simply as a man with a lathe, a pocket knife, and a few stories. A layoff later in life gave him an unexpected reset. He has since built a life centered less on status and more on usefulness. Chip, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you? Good, good, good, awesome. So, Chip, define for the audience today work? Um, you know, that's an interesting question.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

And uh there was something called work-life balance that that came up a few years ago. And I I I think it was all started by a uh a guy that missed his kids' soccer game, so he decided to uh make a differentiation between work and life. Especially when you're in your own business, especially when you're doing your own thing. Work and life are there isn't really any difference. I mean, you don't leave work and go to life, and you don't leave life and go to work. Your life is still involved in your work. So, you know, it better be something you really enjoy. And uh um, and that's what I found over the last 30 years is uh um is a real enjoyment in what I do. Um, and and so, you know, yeah, I have to be here, I have to be on screen, um I have to be in my coaching calls, um, uh, I'm going to LA next week and Dallas in a couple weeks uh um for uh for classes, but God, I just I just love what I do. You know, work to me is an opportunity for for me to stretch and to grow and to stay relevant.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

So describe more in detail for us, Chip. What does your day-to-day look like as you apply this sort of blurred sense of work and life?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Well, I've been on a lot of podcasts lately because uh I've got a couple books out, and so I've been uh I've been pitching the books. But uh the work uh for me is uh um, you know, I usually get up in the morning and and uh um and have some breakfast, read the uh Wall Street Journal, and then uh dive into coaching calls. And uh if I'm at home, it's usually coaching calls or mastermind calls, um coaching calls one-on-one with people that are all over the world. Uh in fact, uh tonight I've got uh I've got somebody that I'll be talking to in Kuala Lumpur. And uh yeah, and um, so you know it's it's that. And then a lot of times I'm on the road. Um, like next week I'm gonna be in LA for uh a mastermind group. Mastermind group is uh is a group of business owners that get together every once in a while and uh and we have some great conversations and it's pure pure coaching, pure counseling. So I run these different mastermind groups. In a couple of weeks, I'll be in Dallas teaching a course on leadership development. And uh it's a three-year course we have all three years um that are in the uh in the same, you know, as they as they're progressing through. And so um from uh Tuesday through Friday, the uh I'll be uh in the classroom teaching and uh out at night and all that kind of stuff. Um yeah, it it's it's varied, it's different. Um, could be writing 360s at some time, could be doing assessments, could be doing a lot of different stuff.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

So in your intro, you talk about a man with a lathe. I guess first of all, make sure the audience knows what a lathe is. Can you describe that and why is that part of your who you are, your identity?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Well, it's become a lot more of an identity in the last few years. Um, a lathe is a woodworking tool. It's it's a uh um it's basically a motor that makes wood spin. That's that's what it is. And uh and it's it, I don't want to get it any more complicated than that, but it allows you to um turn wooden objects like uh bowls and peppermills and you know all kinds of stuff that uh um that is round. And uh um I I gotten the lathe. I uh my wife gave me a lathe for Christmas um about 13 years ago. And uh I just fell in love and uh and have really spent a lot of time doing it. So, you know, this weekend I'll be uh I'm the president of the North Carolina Wood Traders Association, so we have our monthly meeting this Saturday. A week from Saturday, I'll be teaching a class on on uh how to make a bowl. So walk us through now the pocket knife. Yeah, I I carry a pocket knife with me. Except, you know, it's really difficult to go through airports with a pocket knife. So I do leave it at home for that. Yeah, for some reason, TSA, they they take a really dim view of you carrying sharp objects on the uh on the plane. But uh um, you know, to me, the pocket knife symbolizes readiness. You know, I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go out into the wilderness. I'm not, you know, ready to cut down trees with the pocket knife or anything, that kind of kind of stuff. But um it's uh it's readiness. It's it's like, you know, there's a lot of stuff that are like pocket knives. And there are things that are tucked away in your mind or tucked away in your memory that um that are that uh function like a pocket knife. So, you know, look, um if I uh if I get something from Amazon, um I've got a pocket knife that can open the uh open the box. And it's in my pocket and I can just pull it out. But you know, it could be um it could be a story and uh and your ability to pull out the right story at the right time and and tell a good story that that goes along with uh whatever the situation is. Um it could be a book recommendation. And uh, you know, I read a lot, and so you know, I'm more than happy to share the readings that I've had, and you know, and and if somebody needs a book recommendation, I'm I've got it. And I can pull it out of my pocket and uh and it's there. Um in some ways it's people, you know, if if somebody needs a uh um uh someone to contact and uh um you know, and I happen to know them, um I'm more than happy to to connect people. And hopefully in that connection, they'll get further ahead than they would have if if I was involved. So, you know, a pocket knife is just a metaphor, even though I do have a physical pocket knife in uh in my pocket, um, but it's a metaphor for uh um for all the things that make you useful.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

So these are like sort of symbolic tools that you use every day. Walk us through chip. What if somebody doesn't have these sort of things that they identify with, how do we start recognizing and shaping these, I guess, objects to be a part of our identity? Like how have you what was that process for you to say, yes, I relate to the pocket knife, yes, I relate to the lathe so much that it speaks to me? Can you kind of walk us through that process?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

And uh there's a there's a big school of thought around mindfulness. And and I don't know if you've any done it done anything with mindfulness, but uh mindfulness is really simple. It's the art and practice of noticing things. Noticing your mood, noticing how you feel, noticing things in your environment, noticing noticing things. It starts by noticing things. It starts by noticing what's useful. It starts by not underselling what what uh um what God has given you as a as a gift. You know, I'm able to speak in public, I'm able to have conversations like these. Um hopefully I'm making sense when I'm when I'm doing it. Um, but uh um but that's one of those those gifts that I've got that allows me to have the conversation or allows me to step onto a stage and and give a talk. And uh um, and so you know, it starts by noticing what's useful and uh and then working with it. You know, if you like to read, that's great. If you don't, which is really uh there's an interesting statistic. Um, and I notice you've got a lot of books uh behind you. So you're obviously a reader, or either that or it's uh um a uh an electronic. Yeah, bad yeah, green. Yeah, right. I do like to read. They're real. Yeah. And and so, you know, the the stat that I heard is that 57% of college graduates never read a book cover to cover in their entire lives. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah, what uh what's the time frame on that chip? That's a very scary statistic.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Um I I I heard that a few years back and I can't even remember. I I don't know where to attribute it from, but um, but yeah. Uh wow. You know, which makes the 43% of us that do read um uh a little bit different. And I would imagine they get their knowledge in other ways. I I love a good book, and and uh I've I've got I've got way too many going as as we speak.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

So one of the things we talk about, Chip on the show, is that success is not a matter of good luck, it's good skills. So I love you talking about mindfulness. As a yoga teacher, I love teaching mindfulness to students. Walk us through for the audience how we can build the skill of mindfulness in our day.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Um it's a really simple, it really is. And and I would imagine in your teaching of yoga, I've done yoga um quite a bit in the in the past. Um, but in your teaching of yoga, it's probably it starts with your breath. You know? It's it's noticing your breath. It's noticing how it feels when it when it enters your chest. It notices how you feel when it's when it's raising your belly. Um, you notice how it feels as it flows out. Is it warmer or is it cooler? Is it is it, you know, how does it feel as you go out? So something as simple as taking an understanding of what your breath is. And I I always love box breathing because it's it's mindfulness in a box, you know, it's it's mindfulness and and box breathing, I'm sure you've talked about it on on the podcast, but box breathing is is uh um breathing in for a count of four, holding it for a count of four, breathing out for a count of four, holding it at the bottom for a count of four, and and continuing on that way. That is the first best step of mindfulness, because one of the only things that we can control is our breath. And and we can't control it so much that we can kill ourselves. I mean, you know, nobody can hold your breath and you're you're gonna pass out. But uh um you can control your breath in the way that you breathe. Um, there's a a great book, and and if you uh if you haven't run into it, um there's two books by James Nestor. And the uh the first book is um deep. Did you did you read Deep?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

I don't know that one, but I know his book on breath. But please go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, so so I, you know, Deep was my gateway drug into James Nestor. And uh um, and deep is about um uh these free divers that go hundreds of feet deep and hold their breath for three or four minutes. Well, I don't know if you can imagine holding your breath for three or four minutes. I don't really think I can. But these these people do that and can get like eight or nine hundred feet under underwater uh before they have to go back up. Now, there's a lot of hazards with that, but I I just I found it fascinating the whole idea of free diving. And then Breathe by James Nestor um talks about all the different kinds of breathing. And I would imagine with uh with yoga, you are pretty fascinated by breath. And uh um I I think it's it's fascinating when he started to talk about Wim Wim Hof breathing and uh um and uh taping your mouth shut when you sleep and things like that. I mean, it's it's just it's such cool stuff. Um, so you know, the first step in mindfulness is your breath. And uh um, and then it's it's like I I think the the greatest exercise I've ever seen is take a photo and and you know, pop one up on your phone or you know, pull out if you've got a physical photo, um, and and start to name three things that you see. And then after you've named those three things, name three more things, and then name three more things, and then name three more things. And there's so much texture in a photograph. Even if you've taken a photograph of of azaleas that are blooming right now in in our yard, um, there's so much texture in there. There's so much play of light and shadow, there's so much so much life in those in those photos. And that is a great way to start mindfulness. So mindfulness is is really, again, simply noticing things. And if you can notice things, if you can take the time to well, and and here, I'll I'll give you a a quick example of this. Um, we used to live in California and we lived uh about three blocks from the ocean. Um, we lived there about five years. And every day when we drove out to uh um to go to our jobs, we drove out past a section that was looking out on the ocean, um, out on Santa Monica Bay. Um wow. Well, the first 10 times you drive by it, you kind of look and you go, oh, that is so cool. And then the next 10 times you are thinking about something else, or maybe you're talking on the phone, and the next 10 years you just forget. So you have to remind yourself to take a look at this god-awful beautiful scene. And and that's that's really mindfulness is taking the time to say, you know, I'm out in nature. You know, and and here's the the cool thing about nature. So I'm I know I'm zigzagging around on here, but um I I love I love nature. And the reason I love nature, um, there was a uh great book. Did you read The Extended Mind by Annie Paul? No, sounds good though. It's it's uh it's one put it on your list. Um The Extended Mind talks about how our mind is more than our brain. And we extend our mind in our devices, we extend our mind in our build environment. But one one of the things that that she talks about in the book is that when you are out in nature, so you're out taking a walk or or you know, you're out doing something hiking or um whatever, there are no square corners in nature. Yeah. And what they found with the research is that round corners, uh, rounded objects, relax our brains. And when we're looking at at um things like in the build environment, which is uh um, you know, the square corners of all the build environment, because nobody wants to live in a roundhouse, uh, that'd be weird. But all of those square corners tend to tense our brain up. And we have to create jungle or something today. Yeah. Yeah. So so when you go out and you uh um you get a chance to to breathe, and when you take a second and notice, and maybe you're looking at your neighbor's yard, maybe you're looking at a forest, um, you know, um that that's a parallel that I talk a lot about is is wood turning. And the way I look at at forests is a lot different than um it would have been if I had never got into wood turning. You know, I take a look and I see all the different species, I see all the different kinds of oak, um, the different walnuts and cherries and all that kind of stuff. And and, you know, first of all, my wife kids me all the time. Um, I look at them and go, wow, there are a lot of bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Nice. I love that. The lathe coming out in you. No, that's awesome. So I love how you referenced Nestra. I want to go back to that for a second, Chip. So you mentioned the box breathing, which I also love. Didn't change, you can correct me if I'm wrong here, because it's been a while since I've read this book, but he indicated that it was five and a half seconds roughly to for a proper inhale and exhale, right? For the body to, for the alveoli to exchange the oxygen CO2. And I just love you bringing that up again because I feel like breath, and this is where I want to go next with this next question. Why do you think we've lost control of our breath today?

SPEAKER_00 17:56

We don't think about it. You know, and and again, there's so many things in our environment that take our our um our attention. Um, one of the things I I think it was a nestor that was talking about it um is is that we don't breathe fully when um when we're sitting at the computer.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Oh yeah. Email that is that his book? Yeah, I think that was his book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Um and and so we we don't we don't breathe fully, which leads to a lot of bad behaviors. But you know, if we're if we're sitting watching TV at night, we're not thinking about our breath. When when we're certainly when we're out on a run or we're out on a hike, we're thinking about our breath because we're thinking about saving our breath or or you know, maintaining our breath or maximizing our breath. But uh but a lot of the time when we're resting or or we're doing something else and we're working or we're sitting in a meeting, or or one of the hundred things that we do in a day, we're not thinking about our breath. You know, but I'll share this with you. Um so you know, you may or may not know that I had a stroke um 14 years ago. And one of the things that comes out of a stroke is it screws up your emotions. And one of the emotions that are screwed up for me was um uh anxiety. And anxiety for me was a huge cortisol release in into the body. And uh and cortisol, which is a naturally occurring hormone and one that's that's you know, it's okay um most of the time because it's good for heart function and and nerve function and that kind of thing. But when you put too much of it in your body, it it makes you feel really bad. And so I I really struggled with anxiety. And I finally went to a therapist and and um uh wouldn't you know it? He got me to work on breath. And and so, you know, he started teaching me, I think uh um it was like six, eight, four breathing or something like that, um 10, 8, 2 breathing. It was it was just getting my focus on my breath. God, that just calmed me down. And so when when I'm I have that anxious moment, um, I can just I can just breathe. And you know, if if I'm if I'm stopping, if I'm if I'm avoiding some situation and just breathing, it's better because I'm not gonna come unglued and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna hurt the people that I trust and love and and uh and work with. Um because I want to get myself under control. And it's not their deal that that uh I'm they're making me anxious or or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

So, Chip, no, thank you. So I want to go back in time here and just kind of understand. I'm always fascinated with guests on the show when they come to this sort of realization you've had of like how life could be, should be. Walk is was there some sort of a catalyst? Maybe it was the stroke, maybe it was you kind of mentioned the thing about missing the kids' soccer game with work-life balance. Was there one thing that made you sort of like, I want to say wake up, but sort of realize kind of like living today? Or was it just sort of building and now it's sort of plateaued and now you're living your fullest?

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Well, the the first wake-up call, of course, is uh is getting laid off. Um I got laid off in May of '98 from a job that I had in Los Angeles and uh and did a complete reboot. Um my wife and I moved from LA to North Carolina, um, both opened up businesses, and and uh um, you know, I realized then that I didn't want to work for anybody else, and and I always admired people that hung their own shingle. I didn't know what that meant. Uh, and I certainly, you know, if if I had to do it all over, I'm not quite sure I'd do it the same way. And in fact, I I know I wouldn't do it the same way. Um, but but that was that was the first reboot. And then the second one was the stroke because you know, when God taps you on the shoulder and says, Hey, uh, you need to start thinking about your health. Because I didn't. I I didn't think about my health. I didn't think, you know, I was just working. I was working a hundred hours a week and um on so damn many airplanes that uh um you know I I think um you n US Airways and and American Airlines were were going to make me their um their champion. Um I'm closing in on a million miles but that was yeah that that's something you just don't want to do. So so you know the good news is that you're a million miler. The bad news is that you're a million miler.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah and uh and so you know I wasn't taking care of myself and uh um I weighed uh about 110 pounds more than I do now and uh um you know um I didn't have a a a choice I had to slow down and you know what came out of that is that I just wanted to do everything better um relationships um work um health I just wanted to do everything better you know and and so I I was reading a lot before then um I've still maintained the reading um but you know I used to get five hours sleep a night and think that was a lot um I don't do that anymore if I don't get eight hours a night I get cranky you mentioned that you're focused less on status and more on usefulness and I want you to elaborate on that because I feel like today people get lost and chasing the status right and we sort of confuse our title our position or whatever it may be our online followers with usefulness. Walk us through that critical distinction of status and usefulness.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

How many people believe their own BS? Yeah I mean think think about it how many people believe their own BS and whether that's imposter syndrome and they play like they have to or they really do, which you know kind of puts you on the sociopath uh um territory um it's it's if you start to believe your own stuff, if you start to believe that you're the most important person in the world if you start to believe that you're the only one that can do whatever it is you can do um that's that's where it starts. And and so that's all about identity that's all about that's all about believing your own stuff. Being useful is like and and and do you mind if I tell you a quick story? Absolutely chip so my mother-in-law was a wonderful woman she uh she was um one of the uh adults that was around in my life for for most of my life um she died a few years ago um at the age of of 12 days shy of 98 years old um she lived with us on and off over the years and uh um she was a craftswoman she uh um she did theorem painting um she was the one I told you lived up in Vermont and uh um you know I I we went up a lot of times to Vermont and over to New Hampshire and and um spent some time with her um she um she always bugged me about being useful and and about having a hobby and you know she she taught me a whole heck of a lot about aging about aging well about uh about living your best while you're aging and and being useful and so you know um I I I think what I was doing was wrapped up in in creating an identity but I think especially after the stroke it shifted to if it shifted to being useful and when I became useful I became a lot more authentic and when I became a lot more authentic I started having better conversations with people and when I started having better conversations with people good things started to happen and and so you know she taught me a lot about that and it was funny um I I got into the lathe my wife bought me a lathe for Christmas after uh after the stroke and uh um and so um I would make a piece and uh my mother-in-law would be sitting in and she'd be knitting or or something and and I would bring that piece in and present it to her and she would inspect it and and look it over and feel it and all that kind of stuff. You know kind of like he was uh um I I was passing muster with her and uh um and then you know and then she she passed away um she um she died um the day after Christmas in 2017 um she died in my easy chair in my wife's arms and it was it was you know it was really different um it was sacred it was it was beautiful and what's really funny is now my wife is the one that uh um that takes the bowl and and looks it over and turns it over and feels it and all that kind of stuff um tradition yeah yeah my my mother-in-law taught me a whole heck of a lot about living but she also taught me a whole heck of a lot in her dying as well so what was one thing I'm very curious Chip like what was one sort of lesson that you sort of learned from her well the whole thing about useful notes is uh is just really what I learned from her is uh um you know um well and and it was it was funny she had a statement that she used to make whenever she was done talking to you she said this is not open for consultation and you knew that when she said this is not open for consultation that there was no more discussion about whatever it was and uh and you know would leave everybody looking at each other going but but you know it it really it it was it was usefulness it was how to live well aging yeah I didn't have a lot of good role models that way my uh my dad was 51 when he died my mom was 56 and uh and so I didn't have a lot of good role models my my parents were gone way too early and to watch her as she went through her 60s and her 70s and her 80s and eventually her 90s um you know maybe it gave me hope that uh um that I could you know I could do that and I could live well as well. So um there was a lot she taught me.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

What beautiful lessons. No thank you for sharing those. So this is the work sucks but I like it podcast chips what's we've got a little bit away from work haven't we and what do you like about it? No no it's all this is all work. It's all the work. So what sucks about work and what are you doing to make it not suck?

SPEAKER_00 29:00

There's part of every job that sucks. You know and and I don't care what it is maybe it's uh you know once a month I have to do billing which is just not a lot of fun for me um doing all the scheduling doing all of that kind of stuff all the systemic parts of of the job are the part that suck. The intrinsic parts the people parts are are the parts that I love because it's you know it's it's talking to people like you. I mean my goodness I I would never have had a opportunity to um interact with you if uh if we hadn't joined on on this uh podcast so you know that part brings me joy um the part that does not is all the administrative and uh for for me especially um I my daughter works for me and uh and has for I think the last 17 years and uh um she does all the stuff that I don't want to do so I I prepare the billing but uh but then she uh she sends it all out um she takes care of my calendar she uh um you know she does she does so much that I just don't want to do.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Tell her thank you for setting this up. I've enjoyed our conversation as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

So Chip if listeners want to find out more about your books you want to talk about that you know the website where's a good place for them to land to learn more about you well um you can go to my website shoalsandassociates.com and uh um Tony if you if you have not been to the website um you go to books and then what's chip reading and that will tell you um there's about 140 books on there that uh um each have reviews that I wrote um I've read all the books that that are in there and I've I've read a lot more I just you know some of them are just not website worthy and uh um and so um you know it it's a great place to start when you're looking at a a self-development library um and that's a freebie um the second thing is uh books are on Amazon so um I had uh small decisions big shifts come out last fall um October and uh um every dog has its day which came out in March. I've got another one coming out in October called Handoffs and uh and I'm working on um another one for uh for next spring um which is uh is right tentatively called It's Dancing in the eye which you will will really appreciate because you're up in New England um it's about a main lighthouse and the keepers that uh that live in the lighthouse keeper shack and uh and so uh um it's I haven't fleshed it out yet but I've got my storyline figured out and you know all the characters and and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

But um they're also available in audiobook on um Spotify and uh audiobooks.com and Kobe and Barnesandnoble.com a bunch of different uh um audiobook platforms awesome well chip it's been a pleasure having you on the show thank you so much thank you thank you it's it's flown by I mean my goodness I I can't even believe that uh that it's 30 minutes Chip says something in this episode that really sticks there's a part to every job that sucks every single one the goal isn't to find a perfect life without frustration the goal is to find work people and purpose that make the difficult parts worth carrying he also talks about realizing what is actually useful in your life that awareness matters most people are so distracted they never stop long enough to notice what helps them grow and what slowly drains them. One thing that also stood out was the statistic that 57% of college graduates never read another book cover to cover. Think about that learning just stops curiosity stops reflection stops. Chip shared a simple mindfulness exercise take a photo and name three things you notice then name three more it sounds small but it trains your brain to slow down and actually pay attention to the world around you instead of rushing through it. So maybe the skill to work on this week is mindfulness through observation slow down notice more read a book break that statistic thanks for listening to the Work Sucks But I like it podcast we'll see you next time