E78: Turn Disability into Opportunity with Kevin KcShan

Discover how to transform workplaces with the power of inclusion in this episode featuring Kevin McShan, a leading advocate for disability awareness and employment equity. Learn how shifting your mindset from limitations to opportunities can redefine success for everyone. 

Kevin shares his journey from rejection to influence, offering practical steps to build an inclusive culture that attracts diverse talent and drives competitive advantage. Explore strategies to combat attitudinal barriers, innovate job roles, and prioritize leadership diversity. 

This episode is perfect for leaders and HR professionals ready to rethink workplace culture and ensure no talent is left behind. Tune in to get inspired and equipped with real-world tactics to turn disability into opportunity.

Connect with Kevin:

https://kevinmcshanspeaks.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Today I'm honored to have Kevin on the show. Why? Because Kevin represents something that all of us need a little more of in our lives. The courage to define ourselves rather than allowing others to define us. Many people hear the word disability and immediately focus on limitations. Kevin challenges that way of thinking. In his own words, disability is the ability to help others discover new ways of approaching life. It's a different perspective, a different lens, a different possibility. This conversation isn't really about disability. It's about choice. It's about deciding whether you follow your own internal compass or allow someone else to point it for you. Let's roll right in. All right, welcome to the Work Sucks But I Like It podcast. Today we have Kevin McShand. He's a graduate of St. Clair College's journalism, print, and new media program and has a decade plus of journalism experience. Kevin has an extensive history of promoting employment equality for individuals with disabilities. His own disability was born with spastic quadriplegia cerebral palsy. He's also worked with the Ontario Chamber of Commerce on the Discovery Ability Network project and was part of the We Are Able or Wearable, you have to correct me on that, Kevin, project, and has won numerous awards for his work in disability awareness. He's also the podcast host of Let's Have This Conversation. Kevin, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

And thanks for the invite, my friend. I'm looking forward to having a conversation about work, inclusion, and what makes it all go around, my friend. Thanks so much for the invite, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Well, awesome. Like, you know, I was on your show, Kevin, the other day, and we had to have that conversation. Your podcast is let's have this conversation. So I'm like, well, we have to have this conversation around work. So let's jump right in, Kevin. So how do you define work today?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

That's an interesting question. How I define work today is uh making sure that everyone has access to economic and uh uh a societal prosperity. Now it's different for all of us based on our areas of expertise and skill levels and interests, but making sure that everyone has an opportunity for uh economic uh impact, uh, innovation and access, my friend, is how I would define more today. Now it's uh different for uh many people because our bridge our bridges towards work are different, but making sure that uh we have access to economic opportunity and societal advancement is how I would define more.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

No, thank you, Kevin. So when you graduated college, you know, you'd indicated in an interview that I would kind of like, you know, preparing here, listening to previous episodes of shows you've been on. And you had said that you you had to volunteer for four years after you graduated from college, and it took you six and a half years to find a company that would pay you. Walk us through that. You just talked about work as being, you know, having access to economic, you know, sort of these resources. What happened after college?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah, so after college, I went on 10 consecutive uh job interviews. I graduated journalism school with a sports journalism background, and I wanted to be a sports reporter, but I went on 10 uh consecutive job interviews and nobody would hire me. So I had to carve out a uh a career as a professional speaker and sort of uh turn my uh story of uh rejection into a story of prosperity, and now I talk to organizations about the uh the benefits and the need for to hire or amplify the hiring of folks with uh disabilities because if you look at the numbers, a quarter of uh people with disabilities are regularly employed compared to uh uh 68% of their non-disabled counterparts. So what I do now is I work with organizations to h help amplify the hiring of folks with disabilities through speaking engagements and uh presentations. But going uh back to um that that time, yeah, I I went on and 10 consecutive uh job interviews, as I said, um and I turned my rejection into my uh story of promises, I like to call it now.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

No, I love that. So, Kevin, what was the hardest part about going through those 10 interviews? I mean, outside from you getting rejected, right? I guess what was the thing that you had to really just sort of overcome, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Well, well, when you uh live with a disability, I think you know you know how to go back to the well of uh resilience more than once. And certainly uh uh anyone that w that's had a disability can understand that uh uh you know your employment journey is not always a straight line. And you're you you know, I I told someone the other day the other day that um when you have a disability, rejection in an employment isn't uh uh isn't a maybe, it's a certainty. And certainly uh when you look at that, you know, resilience, I always say is the answer that to the test once adversity strikes. And I think what I learned uh mo most through going through that process is that uh there are multiple different ways to uh uh define resilience. And I, you know, I I've come to learn the importance of internal uh m motivation because it's my belief that uh if you don't set your own internal expectations for yourself, it's hard to raise to the level for anybody else. So the answer to the question in the short term is the uh learning about the importance of internal motivation and uh setting your own standards so that you can uh redefine your own version of prosperity, even if society tells you when you have a disability that that uh you know uh you're set up not to be successful. So my job now is to paint my own portrait of success and make sure making sure that we eliminate those societal barriers that are in the way of progress for people with uh disabilities.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So one of the things we like to say in the show is that success is not a matter of good luck, it's good skills. And the skill that I'm hearing from you, and I want you to kind of build on this, of setting your own standards and having sort of this internal motivation. Walk us through how you've built these standards for yourself so you can live by and stay motivated by them.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

You know, I I think everyone's uh portrait of success is different, as I said before. And for me, I I live my life uh through uh three non-negotiables. That's energy, effort, and enthusiasm. If I don't have uh those in uh in high supply, it's hard uh to live life from a uh social, economic, or societal standpoint. So the three non negotiables in life that I have are energy, effort, and enthusiasm, and it permeate permeates uh through everything I do for sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Love that. So I want you to kind of build on each one here. So walk us through energy. What do you mean by energy? Like the internal energy, energy around you. What do you mean by energy? I love these three actually.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

The energy, uh so the type of disability that I have, uh it affects my level of energy and my level of stamina and all of that stuff. So uh in terms of energy, in terms of uh bring bring the necessary attitude and approach to uh solving problems, because you know, I think people with disabilities are natural problem solvers. So the energy I speak of when I talk about uh career non-negotiables is having the uh amount of physical and mental energy to uh really know what your value proposition is as uh a professional and going after it every day with the uh uh energy needed to be successful in terms of of the amount of stamina and the amount of intellectual energy that you have to be successful.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

No, that's awesome. So that must take a lot of effort, right? So that leads into your next E, if you will. So walk us through effort now.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

You know, the effort, you know, I always say that that uh you make time in life for the stuff that you prioritize. If you prioritize something, it'll show, and when you check GPT your way through life and let other people uh uh dec uh decide the description that you're you're putting out into the world, uh then that's easily detectable uh in the age of AI. So the effort is the amount of you know um the amount of human and intellectual capital that you put behind an effort. And uh anyone that's been a teacher or anyone that's had the grade papers before uh knows exactly what I'm talking about, uh, because uh there are ways to artificially get your way through life and authentically get your way through life. So effort's all about the difference between authenticity and artificial sort of uh uh, you know, acceptance. And I try to, you know, there's a motto in my life that I live by, and that's that excuses are deterrence for uh uh, you know, continual progress. If you constantly make excuses, then uh the roadmap to success is harder to achieve because you're uh you're building in sort of your artificial uh acceptance or answers to life that you're letting other people control the narrative.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

So I love what you threw in the narrative there with AI, right? Like creating your own authentic description of yourself. That's so critical today, right? We rely on, like you said jokingly, with AI to do that effort for us, and it really needs to come from us. So I love that. So, how do you get this enthusiasm around all these things now?

SPEAKER_01 11:19

You know, enthusiasm is just about giving a shit, to be perfectly honest, about uh giving uh giving yourself uh, first of all, the the authority to say that I care about this enough that I'm willing to show up with all of the energy and all of my maximum effort, and I'm gonna do it with a smile. You know, it takes a lot more energy to be unhappy than it is to smile. So when we talk about enthusiasm, I have three ways at looking at enthusiasm. You've got to find something you enjoy, something that that brings you intense passion, and something that that, you know, if you die tomorrow, that you're willing to die on the vine to sort of accomplish. So enthusiasm also uh comes about when we talk about, you know, your your personal motivations for life. What aligns your internal fire? And for all of us, it's different. So uh the question I ask myself is why uh am I alighting this internal fire? If I can't give myself a 30-second answer as to why I'm excited about doing something, I don't tend to do it because you've got to light your internal fire. You know, so many people go through life and work saying, I have to go to work for eight hours just to get a paycheck. But if you reframe it to say, I'm going to work for eight hours to contribute, and these are my reasons for contributing, then your internal fire is lit, and then the enthusi uh the enthusiasm takes care of itself because uh you have the the internal fire uh to contribute your maximum effort, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

No, and I love your specific use of words, Kevin. I th I'm a big fan of how I choose my words. Walk us through your thoughts on the word disability.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Um well, uh if you want uh the short answer, you might want to pop some popcorn and come back. But uh you know, um you know, disability to me is a new way of framing um you know, uh the ability to um allow others to have a new way of thinking about approaching different things in life. You know, disability uh can be uh uh um broad term when we talk about workforce uh innovation, a lot of especially in the in the states now, depending on the states you live in, uh diversity, equity, and inclusion uh is going over what I call an extreme makeover. Uh so the way I look at disability is how are you defining uh your effort to include yourself? So instead of looking at it from a negative limitation, it's how are you defining your effort or your equal your equality effort to include yourself in a conversation. You know, I talk a lot about uh finding internal motivation, and I said uh, you know, when I graduated college, I was 19 years old, and I didn't get my first uh paying job until I was 25. And the reason was at the time, uh people uh viewed my disability as a liability. So as you mentioned, uh I uh uh volunteered for four straight years at a local television station in my hometown. And I told them I didn't want any money, I just wanted to prove that I could uh be a reporter. So through that experience, I covered 50 stories, and then I found an avenue to my local provincial governments here in Ontario, and they said, Hey, you're really good at talking about uh workplace inclusion for people with disabilities. So they hired me to be a special master to uh uh uh advise the province on looking at how they hire folks with disabilities, and through there I started my uh journey uh uh in employment. But it started because I had the internal motivation to give uh uh maximum effort to something that I um uh care about deeply, and that's the inclusion of folks with disabilities. Because when you hire folks with disabilities, you do a couple of things. You reduce turnover training costs and the amount of time that you have to um train someone. So uh it's all about finding what, you know, in my view, in life, we're all given uh uh, you know, our own internal compass, and it's incumbent upon all of us to sort of point it in the direction that we want it to go. And the worst thing I think you can do is lead others, uh uh expect that others can lead you to your own definition of prosperity, because if you're not on the journey to find your own level of prosperity, uh then you're giving up the journey of how you want to show up uh in a life to someone else, and then you're giving away your autonomy of choice. So it's important to have autonomy of choice when you're in career uh uh development. And then once you're in uh your desired career, it's about finding ways to maximize your level of impact so you can leave a future for the next generation. So I hope that answers the question.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

No, I love that, Kevin. I also love how you try to put a positive spin on it, right? I guess I agree with you. Disability makes it sound so negative and limiting. I guess, you know, what should what do you recommend for people to ask then when we talk about disability instead of assume when people have, I don't even know what the right word is anymore. I like what you said, the effort to include yourself. Um what should people be asking and not assuming when we talk about disability?

SPEAKER_01 18:07

You know, uh when we talk about disability, you know, uh, you know, I I spend a lot of time trying to get employers to understand it's not about focusing on the disability, it's about focusing on the person and and focusing on the abilities of the person and how they can help innovate the job to make the job description easier uh based on their own life experience. So if someone uh isn't great about because this is um my own experience. I'm not great at working in in open-air environments. I uh like to w work in quiet spaces to collect thoughts and and do communicating. So it's about innovating futures so that we make the world of work easier instead of looking at disability as a limitation. We should start uh to look at it as a a way of innovation to make the world of work easier, more efficient, and hopefully at the end of the day, more enjoyable as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

I mean, I love how you said it right there, right? You look at you're focusing on the person, right, not the disability. I mean, that in itself is I love that, just asking about the person and not the disability. So when we talk about workplace culture, you've kind of been, you know, alluding to it, you know, with your examples here. How do we start to really foster this culture of inclusion and diversity in the workplace?

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Well, the first thing is we've got to put people uh uh in leadership positions that aren't typically there because you you are countless two things when you do that. You have have a new way of looking at how your uh organization runs, and then you uh are at the forefront of telling people that you're an inclusive organization. You know, there there are so many people that put on the bottom of a job description that we're an equal opportunity employer. But let's look at what that actually means. When you're an equal opportunity employer, what does that mean? Do you uh uh allow people with disabil uh disabilities to interview for a job uh and uh and then expect them to fit their uh expertise into a job description that you've unofficially created? But what once that's why it's so important to uh leverage the relationships that you uh have with the companies or with the uh with the employees that work for your company. Because I tell leaders all the time when I give speeches as a professional speaker, uh, that the people in your organization that you are in charge of leading are your most important assets. So the way that you maximize productivity uh and results is you uh get to know them on a personal level instead of saying, how was your weekend? Uh uh you can say what surprised you most about the weekend and how are you uh going to use the rest or the experiences for for the weekend to show up better as the best version of yourself for the week. And when we're talking about interviewing people with disabilities, you can say instead of telling me about your experience, uh you can say, Um, how uh based on our job description does this fit into your life experience and what what uh points of difference are you going to bring to an organization uh that uh that sort of uh eliminate our barriers to expansion? Instead of looking at disability as a limitation, um uh employers and organizational leaders should look at it as a chance to expand their horizon of understanding and allow them uh to gain a competitive edge over their competitors.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

So I'm just thinking back, Kevin. You know, you had those 10 companies that rejected you 10 times, and I can just hear them saying, well, we don't have a position for someone with a disability. You know, what you're saying is like we got to focus on the job. So I guess can you get a little like a little technical here with how we can, how companies can integrate someone with a disability while focusing on their strengths?

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, so instead of um so I'll give you uh an example of what I was told when I graduated and went on those job interviews. They said, Kevin, you're highly qualified, we'd love to have you. But because of the way we operate in the newsroom, we don't think you're gonna go and we don't have the resources to support you. So we wish you well, you're qualified, but because of our limitations in terms of resources in a newsroom, uh, we can't hire you. So now what we can do is allow people to work from home, or allow people to uh come into the office and set up an office that's on the first floor, or set up an office that that allows them to uh communicate using technology instead of always having to come into the office, because a large barrier is often uh transportation for folks with disabilities. So how using technology can uh can we thank Sparter? Uh and if they have uh an opportunity to go into the office, uh, you know, there are statistics that show that if you hire uh folks with disabilities, uh that they are uh they increase the social morale of an organization. So when you hire folks with disabilities, there's a there's a chance to partner w with other organizations. What other community organizations can we partner with? You know, there are uh organizations in every state that get hired by the government to employ folks with disabilities. And often those organizations come with job coaches that that help the employer and some better uh implement the onboarding and implementation of folks with disabilities. Or if if you don't want to work with a uh a specific organization, that's why it's so important to get to know people, to get to know what makes them sick, how can we innovate our job expectations to meet the the abilities of a person with a disability while also setting the expectations uh of uh of what the job requires, but how do we provide them the personal autonomy for them to be successful? So that could be uh as simple as the raised type of a desk, the use of assisted software, you know, uh, or uh for me, when I go through emails, I uh uh use a dictator to make uh sure that I I uh can read them faster. Because if you put up a whole bunch of words on a page, uh it's uh I struggle to read. But but if I can read uh something through dictation, it goes a lot faster and I absorb the information faster. So it's about listening to the person with a disability instead of always trying to pigeonhole the job just a description uh to fit that person to it's about finding ways to innovate the job so that the person can thrive in the job.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I love that, Kevin. Like thinking outside the box. And all I can say is it sucks for those 10 companies not hiring you because here you are thinking outside the box with all these innovative ways. So, no, thank you. So, Kevin, this is the work sucks, but I like it podcast. What sucks about your work and what are you doing to make it not suck today?

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Well, what sucks is that only a quarter of people with disabilities across the country in both Canada and the United States are employed versus uh 65 to 68 percent of their non-disabled counterparts. So, what I'm doing is I'm having conversations with organizations every day about the need to amplify the hiring of folks with disabilities and the competitive advantage that comes with hiring it and uh hiring uh people with disabilities and making organizations uh uh you know get get out of the their shell when it comes to uh you know their attitudinal barriers when hiring folks with disabilities and having them re-imagine work for not a liability, but an opportunity for growth and expansion, as I said before.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

No, I love that, Kevin. If listeners of this show want to, you know, learn more about your work, reach out to you for, you know, your guidance, you know, your wisdom here, where's a good place for them to land?

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Yeah, so everything about me is on my website, Kevin McKenSpeaks.com. Uh, I'm active on LinkedIn, I post every day, as you know. Um, so reach out to me on LinkedIn. Uh subscribe to my podcast. Let's have this conversation where I talk to business leaders and uh people like yourself about a variety of issues. Uh, but everything you need to know about me is on Kevin McKinn uh speaks.com.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Thank you, Kevin. It's been a pleasure having you on the show.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Tony, it's great to see you and thanks for the uh invitation to talk about inclusion, acceptance in the workplace, my friend. You're doing great work, and I'm honored to add my level of expertise uh to the show and to the mission, my friend. Thanks so much for having me and have a great day.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

What I took away from this conversation is that the story was never about disability. The story is always about the person. Too often we focus on labels, limitations, and assumptions. Kevin reminds us to focus on energy, effort, enthusiasm, and possibility. He chooses every day to create his life rather than waiting for someone else to give him permission. Success is not a matter of good luck, it's good skills. The skill to work on this week is developing your internal compass. Write out what Kevin lives by for you. What gives you energy? What does effort really look like for you? How do you create enthusiasm in your life? For me, I derive energy from challenging cliche self-help themes with how we show up to work. Work sucks at times, but we can learn to love the process. Effort is all about doing the things that need to get done, even though we don't want to. It reminds us of those times of signing up for a marathon and needing to put the effort months before to train for it. I used to wake up at 5 a.m. on Saturdays serve on 20 miles. Enthusiasm comes about for me when I resonate with people like Kevin that are energetic towards what they do. I get excited for them and also myself. So again, work sucks, but we can learn to like the entire process.

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