E81: Why Podcasting Is Still the Best Medium for Authentic Connection with Wisdom Okonkwo

Most podcasters dread the endless grind of post-production, but what if there’s a smarter way to turn your podcast ideas into reality without burning out? Wisdom Okonquo, host of My Podcast Story, shares how he’s transforming the podcasting landscape by giving voice to the creators behind the scenes—and reveals the key skills that keep his show thriving amid the chaos. 

If you’re a creator overwhelmed by editing, struggling with guest episodes, or just craving a way to make your podcast more sustainable, this episode is packed with actionable tactics and real-world examples. Wisdom's experience hosting over a thousand interviews makes this a masterclass in turning ideas into impactful content—even when resources are tight.

Connect with Wisdom:

mypodcaststory.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Work isn't just the job you get paid to do. Work is taking an idea that exists only in your mind and making it real. Every invention, every business, every song, every conversation, and yes, even every podcast starts as nothing more than an idea that someone was willing to build. Today's guest knows that better than most, as a fellow podcast host, he understands that podcasting isn't simply about microphones, downloads, or social media clips. It's about creating a space where distractions disappear, curiosity takes over, and people feel comfortable enough to tell the stories that matter. In this conversation, two podcast hosts sit down to talk about the work of podcasting. Let's roll right in. All right, welcome to the work sucks but I like it podcasts. Today we have Wisdom Okonquo. He's the host of the podcast, My Podcast Story. And the reason why we have him on today is I was on his show and I wanted to flip the switch and talk about the work behind a podcast. Wisdom, welcome to the show. Yeah, it's good to see you too. No, good to see you, man. Wisdom, define work for us today. Define work.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Given the definition of work will be embellished with my own point of view.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

And uh work is is what it it takes to realize an idea into a reality.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

I I tend to define that because most of the work I do is taking an episode idea, a podcast idea into something that people can listen and partake of versus just, oh, this is a lovely idea to something that, okay, yeah, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

That's a beautiful definition of work. So I guess how do you take these? I guess first off, why did you come up with my podcast story? Very curious how you came up with the name. Yeah. That idea that you made reality now.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

I love the idea. I think when I I saw Starter Story, so it's uh it's a different brand entirely. And I was like, oh yeah, did this startup story? And then I saw my first million. And I was like, wait, what if we do my podcast story and then podcast host and the movers and shakers of podcast industry come around and share their story? And so that was the idea behind my podcast story. And the moment I came up with the name of that, it just clicked, and I was like, this is it.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

So where do you see, I guess, the trajectory of your podcast? I'm just curious, as like another podcaster, you know, we're creating these conversations. I guess what are you working towards? What's this idea now? You have this idea. What is more of the reality or the idea that you're trying to explore now?

SPEAKER_02 2:52

I think the old idea behind my podcast stories um if you look at podcasting, and it's it's common in most industries, there are people who they talk about, oh, this is what you should do with your podcast, which of course is a great idea, but nobody really gets to talk to the people that are in the trenches, you know, creating a podcast, building the podcast, those on the mic and behind the mic that people don't even get to hear their voice, but they create most of the amazing shows that we're part of our childhood. I mean, if you're if you're Agen Z and young for podcasting, and there are those who are like, oh yeah, the favorite shows. And so my podcast story, yeah, the idea is to give uh a platform to these people to share their story. Because they're always the ones asking the questions, but to get them to be asked the questions and get them to share their story. That's like your idea for the platform and for the trajectory. I think I want to get to a point where I can look at the top hundred uh podcasters in the US, top 100 podcasters in Canada. Right now I'm thinking of um Anglophone speaking uh podcasters because I only speak English. Maybe in the future we'll my move into a country that speak other languages, but I want to look at the list and say, okay, yeah. I think I've interviewed 75% of those people. I know them. We've you know, we've talked. That's the goal. Not really numbers or views. I mean, that's lovely, but that's not really a thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

So I guess why the medium of of podcasting wisdom? Like, why do you resonate with a podcast?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Okay, first of all, having a podcast called by podcast story and not not having it on podcast, that will kind of be Okay, yeah, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Sorry, I guess, yeah, good point.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

That would be but I get the question. Just a step back, you know, the podcast media. Sorry, yeah. Kind of I kind of loved the idea of um the radio, the audio, um media form being in your head. And you know, with uh if you've noticed with the reels, vertical videos, there's always this distraction versus if you're listening to a podcast, you're probably going for a run, or you you're on the uh on the uh in the kitchen doing some things and it's just there. It's not like there's another content that's like, oh, look at me, click me, watch me, listen to me, you know, and that's itself. It's I just felt it's different. I love that medium, and I'm like, yeah, I I love the medium. I'm gonna create with this medium too.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

What are your thoughts then of the video too? I guess because that I just asked because you see it as a growing trend, right? Yeah. Um it's yeah, what are your thoughts with video entering the podcast scene?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Okay, the first thing I see is that I mean it's it's using creating video makes it easier to create multiple pieces of content. That is, if you're making video, it's easy to repose into clips and other forms of content. The other thing I see with video is uh in a sense, it creates uh kind of receipts. Because now we're having these conversations and you know, versus we just did audio only, which of course is great. There's nothing wrong with that, but now I can see, oh yeah, Tony D Wood had a conversation versus you're like, oh yeah. Are we really sure the conversation happened?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Not really. Okay, so no, I like that. You kind of called it a receipt kind of like visual evidence. I guess I'll be honest with you on my podcast, I don't have the resources yet this summer. Maybe you'll be the first one. We'll make video here, you know, because it's so accessible.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Can you help me understand what you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, I guess like, no, great, great question. No, podcast host, talking to podcast hosts, and I love this. So I mean, I'll be honest with you, this is kind of like I hate to call it, you know, side hustle, but I I just genuinely enjoy podcasting too, like you do. And um, but you know, I'm doing my PhD part-time. I have a nine to five job. I'm in, you know, I want to balance my relationship with my girlfriend, you know, spend time with friends. I teach yoga, you know, I'm finishing a book um as well. I've started another book. So no, thank you. So yeah, I just say resources, and it's not like it's not I definitely want it. I definitely want video because I agree with you. It's like, okay, that's great, the audio, but it's almost like, you know, I I want to go to video this summer, in that people don't know how to like interact anymore. And I guess like, you know, with the podcast with video, it's showing us interacting, right? It's showing that we're engaged with each other. You're not on your phone, I'm not on my phone, I'm talking to you, right? It's like reminding us how to like have a conversation with another human being. So that's what I mean by kind of resources, but no, I that's a you do have a question that's up, though.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Your audio sounds great. The the background for those that are listening, it's the library, which is beautiful, by the way. Thank you. Your camera, it's it's uh it's it makes my look like a 1950s uh camera. It's it's lovely. You do have what it takes, and nothing changes in your workflow. I mean, if you record your the video with Riverside, you the same way you edit the audio, you edit it and you send it to YouTube and um Spotify and you know, like that. So nothing really changes.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

No, you're 100% right. I guess uh I'm gonna get technical here and listeners bear with us as we dive into this because I think this is great here and the technical details of podcasting. So, wisdom, you use Riverside. Of course, I use Riverside to you know host our our show here. I guess so, excuse me, to record the show. Do you use what do you use to host the show?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Oh, yeah. What I use to host and I use Spotify for creators, so it's free. So that's why I use that just because it's free. No kidding. You have a great Tuesday, but I just choose that because I love free things that work.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah, why not? Right if the resource is there. Okay, interesting. So I use BuzzSprout as a paid subscription. Um interesting, cool. Because I guess with Buzz Sprout, I haven't you can do video now, but I haven't upgraded my package. But that's good to hear that Spotify has, you know, that option for video.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah. I think at a point in time I was like, oh, what if, you know, if it's because it's free, there are a lot of considerations. What if this, what if that? And then I realized that podcasting is easy to move. If I switch and move to a better host tomorrow for any reason, I can easily redirect and just move without having to say, oh, all those years of episodes, what is going to happen there? Am I going to lose it? And nothing's going to change. The listeners are not even going to know anything. They just click on episodes and still listen. And so with that in mind, I'm like, I'm not locked in, like, you know, being on a platform like YouTube where I'm like, oh, I want to go to this other platform. What happens to my videos? And you can't really do anything.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

No, that's a that's a great, great point. I guess um, wisdom, what do you this is the work sucks, but I like it podcasts. What sucks about podcasting today and what are you doing to make it not suck?

SPEAKER_02 9:56

What sucks about podcasting is the post-production, the editing, the doing of the titles, the description. I mean, it doesn't really matter that much if you're doing just one episode a week, but if you have like five podcasts like I do, and you know, multiple episodes and all that, then it becomes a lot. I love the conversation. I love to talk to people, I love to do research to find amazing people to talk to. But that other part, I really don't see anything creative about it. And what I do with it is I use AI. So I create a custom prompt, I use Cast Magic, and you could use ChatGPT for this. And I just paste the transcript, it comes with all the things, and I copy and paste. And I've not really found a way to just do the thing without copying and paste. That would be lovely.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

No, I agree with you. I mean, it's all it's fun to lead up to the interview and to have the conversation, and afterwards you're like, man, this sucks, like going back and editing the ums and the ahs and the the, you know, the long pauses where people are collecting their thoughts or whatever. I guess, wisdom, share for the listeners, because sometimes I feel like this is sort of overlooked with the podcast. Let's say for every half hour of recording that you do, what time would you spend on top of that half hour to be able to publish the show? And what's involved? Talk us through like all the things involved.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

If I do a half hour an episode, at least I'll spend about 10 minutes in guest communication. That's if it's a guest interview. So are we talking about the guest interview episodes or solo episodes? I love it. You you run with it. Start with whichever one. I love it, I love it. Okay. For solo episodes, solo episodes is easier because now I don't have to communicate with guests. Now it's just me. I show up, I record my thing. I don't even have to do up to 30 minutes, I can do 20 minutes and I'm like, oh yeah, that's enough for the idea. And I can easily edit. And also for the editing, it would take me about um 40 minutes, um, about an hour for a 30 minute episode to edit and then schedule and publish. So for a solo episode, it takes me about um um three hours to do a 30-minute episode. And then uh for guest interview, it takes about 30 minutes, you know, to message the guests. Let's just say one hour of back and forth messaging, getting them to book uh across maybe a week or so, and then 30 minutes of recording time, and then you edit the episode. So a 30 minutes episode would take about minimum of one hour to edit. And so it takes about three to four hours for just an episode across maybe one or two weeks, depending on how long it takes to get to one episode.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

No, I appreciate you sharing that, right? I think that's like, you know, it's similar for me, right? For every half hour, it's at least one to three hours, depending on what happens, right? I had an instant the other day and they didn't have a microphone. And I was like, oh, Riverside will like clean it up with AI or no problem, right? I'm in the post, right, doing the edit, and it didn't clean it up. And I felt so bad wisdom. I had to go back to this person and say, I am so sorry, but this sounded like crap. I didn't say it like that. And we have to redo it. And it would just, it totally sucked because they didn't have a good microphone. And then come to find they had one, but it wasn't like turned on. So I've learned to ask the question now, okay. Sometimes I can see the microphone, I know you're a host, you know you you've got a microphone set up. So it's like now I just ask people, okay, you get the microphone, we got the headphones, like we're yeah, so that's about that quality input.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Yeah, I've had I've I've had my own fair share of battling with noise. And I found Riverside is great when if it's just regular, you know, background noise, but when it's like the deep of the deep, I use things like a phonic, you know, that would like remove and you know fix the sound. And uh most of the time I I feel like the the more work you do in pre-production, the less work you have to do in post-production. So the more time you spend, maybe an extra 15 minutes, say, okay, uh, is your mic connected? Have you turned on the fan turned off the fan? Is the AC turn it on you know, those background noise and the room is quiet? And I mean you get a fairly decent sound, so you don't have to like do so much work after uh production.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

But if you're like, oh, I'm just going to do everything and have you ever had to tell anyone like we had to stop this interview? Have you ever had to like stop an interview because it sounded so bad?

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Uh for the sound, stop the interview. For most of the people I interview, they are what I like to call career guests. So they're people who, you know, you know, maybe once in a month they go to one or two podcasts. So they've been in the business of appearing on podcasts. So I they kind of set up in a in a sense. But where I think the issue would come up would be when you're reaching out to people who they have never been on a podcast in their entire life. And so they really have no clue about it. And they're like, okay, so what am I supposed to do? I mean, I mean, for most people, even though they've never been on podcast, in a sense they've used Zoom, so they kind of, you know, they kind of like it. Well, I find that that if they do have a quiet room, the place is quiet, and with the devices, you should get a good sound. The only scenario is where they're recording the interview in a very noisy place. Uh or maybe they have a the place where they are, it's not noisy, but probably their house is close to a train station. I've had that instance. You know, but it's the the thing I had wasn't that well, that the train just passed once, you know, in the interview and then we're we're good to go. But in scenarios like that, uh I mean it happens once in a while, but I don't I don't really think there's anything we could do. I I try to make the guests look good as much as I can.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

No, I love that. I love that. I it made me think of I was doing an interview with someone and their two-year-old was running around and he kept interrupting and saying, Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, this is part of the work. You're a parent. Like, this is great. I kept it in the episode. I kept the noise. It was, it was, I thought it was fantastic. Wisdom, what is one thing you fear most as a podcast host when you're podcasting?

SPEAKER_02 16:14

This is this is strange now because I've done so much interviews that I feel like I've seen everything.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Okay, fair enough. Yeah, all right. Fair enough. I love it. Yeah, you're seasoned.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

I've done over a thousand interviews and I've interviewed different guests. And so I feel like, you know, I've seen one form of the other. So nothing surprises or scares me anymore. I mean, it did might have scared me in the past, but now I see somebody with a child, you know, trying to say, or maybe a pet. I'm like, oh yeah, that's you know, and I'm like, yeah, awesome. You know, it's not out of the ordinary. The other thing that's scares me the most is doing uh my research for a guest and showing up on the podcast and the guest uh realizing that the guest is like, oh no, I don't want to talk about that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

And then the guest is like telling me that this is what I talk about. Like, I don't think that will really happen because if I do my research good enough, that won't happen. You understand? You know, it's like if I have um okay, I have one of my podcasts is uh is called Class of Business, and I tend to interview people in business. And then I I should I I should be able to find out because I've had an instance, I think two instances, where I reached out to someone, a doctor, and I was like, I just want you to talk about, you know, the stories and the lessons you've learned of life. And then the guest just showed up, you know, he filled in the questionnaire, he filled in the quote and everything for my podcast. But when he showed up, I was asking him, what's the quote you want to share with me? And uh the quote he did share was completely different from the the topic of the podcast. And he was talking about uh uh he was talking about it was just completely different. And I was like, no, we can't do this interview. I mean, I there's no way I can force this episode to align. Like, no. No.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

So how did you I'm curious, did you call it right then when you realized it? I didn't waste it.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

I I felt like it was completely disrespectful to waste his time.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Well the fact that they just just for more context, you know, my podcast is one of my podcasts is called Relatable Wisdom, where I um ask people to share their um their motto, philosophy quotes, and he put the quotes, he filled in the quotes he he wanted to share and all that. And I prepared with a quote and all that, and then he came on the podcast and he said, um, marijuana is medicine. And and I'm like, okay, it's not like I have anything against marijuana or any of those things, but I have a seven program podcast. It's about stories, life, and stuff like that. Quotes and lessons, and I don't really see how that fits into heat. And I was like, no, this is not going to work. And it wasn't a question of the guest, it was just like, oh, this is what the guest wants to talk about, you know. So the guest wants to talk about what he talks about instead of his story, right? And that didn't work, you know. So I think just the lessons to people who want to guess on other people's podcast, understanding the angle of the podcast matters a lot. Not just, oh, this is the message I want to share, and you know, just trying to like fussy down the truth of the list.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

I like that a lot, right? Because I would get people on my podcast. Not that you're like trying to sell your podcast, you're speaking very genuinely, which I love. But you're right though, they come on and they're like, I want to sell my five-step program. And you're just like, No, no, no, no, we want to talk about work. And that's fine at the end, right? You can share your five-step program and your coaching, but let's talk about the work. But it is tough, right? As a host, you're trying to navigate the conversation to save face, you know, you want to call them out, like, stop talking about yourself and talk about what the podcast is talking about. No, I love that. So, wisdom, one thing that's happened to me, and I I know you've you know you've done hundreds, thousands, you said of episodes. What happens when no one shows up? I feel like I've been getting that in the past couple months. Like, people will book a podcast and then I'm waiting there. It's like a date, you know, you're like five, 10 minutes late, and then you're just like, is this happening? What what are your thoughts around that? I guess when people don't show up after they've set the time.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

At the beginning, when I started podcasting, at first out, you know, it was easy to blame. I was like, Well, this guy, they're terrible. These people are evil, these people, they're disrespectful. They can't, you know. But then I was like, wait, it's my fault. You know, not in a way to like, you know, condemn myself, but like, you know, how what could I actually do? Then I realized that there are two reasons why people don't show up for a meeting. Number one, an emergency showed up. Number two, they forgot that they had they booked the meeting. Especially if your calendar has enough space where they can book like one month in advance. And they booked the meeting and it's gone. So I was like, okay, I start collecting emails and phone numbers and reminding people, you know, three days to the meeting, one day to the meeting, three hours to the meeting, 15 minutes to the meeting, I give them, I text them and say, hi, you know, am I seeing you in the podcast? And then I noticed that the show-up rate increased. And what would happen is that if people are not going to show up, when they see the reminder, they would respond that, oh, I'm I'm not gonna make up, make it to the meeting, maybe a day or maybe 10 hours or three hours to the meeting. And that way I won't just show up and and be waiting.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Do you give people like strikes, I guess? You know, because I've had an instance where I've had it two or three times where I've literally gotten ghosted. I want to say it was three. I'm gonna be honest with it. And I was thinking like you, I'm like, hey, is there an emergency? Is everything okay?

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Did you ask them why?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

I should have. They said there was an alarm. They said they kept missing their alarm. Obviously, I'm not gonna use the name here, but it just kept missing the alarm. And I don't know, maybe it was in a different time zone around the world. Yeah, that I was like you, I'm like, okay, you know, I I don't send notifications out. I like that, I should start. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Um if they happen the first time before they book, make sure you could take their phone number so that maybe uh 10 minutes at the time you could text them or call them. Like that. You know, because right now we're just sitting down and they don't even know that the meeting is happening.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah. That's a pro tip. Thank you, Wisdom. Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

So I want to go back to your kind of like, you know, um thoughts of taking the idea into reality. So I feel like people have a lot of ideas, right? Walk us through that process. I know it's kind of a very open-ended question here, of turning that into a reality. Like, I guess the times that suck. The times like you've done thousands of episodes, hosted numerous podcasts. Like, how what how do you get through all that noise to see your idea become that reality?

SPEAKER_02 22:48

I think there are two instances. The first instance is you wake up one day and you have a perfect viction of what the reality you're trying to build is. The second instance is there's a problem you're trying to solve, but you don't know what a perfect solution looks like. Okay. So for the in I think in both in both instances, it's it's the same. You create the first viable products. You just create something and then you create, you keep innovating and iterating and iterating until you get something better. In this instance, which is podcasting, it's quite different. Because with the podcast, you have to release your episodes. It's not like a book where you write the first draft and you have to do multiple iterations before you release. But with the podcast, you do the first three episodes and you're like, okay, how did the conversation go? And then you you apply it to the next episodes, not not uh not the backlogs. And so the first five, ten episodes, they're gonna be terrible. And that's just it. I mean, if it's not terrible, it means you didn't grow. Yeah, there's no, you can't, there's no way you, even if your standard is so high, right? It's just that your terrible might be less terrible than our terrible. But the fact that you grew grew in the past six months, you're like, oh wow, I can't believe I intro I I studied my intro like this. I mean, you know, that was that guy was yeah, that guy was really terrible.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

No, that's great. So one of the things we like to say on the show wisdom that is this success is not a matter of good luck, it's good skills. What would you say is the skill to keep that sort of like what you were talking about, right? With the idea of improving. What's that skill that you're kind of talking about?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah. I think one thing I I want to be intentional about doing is that we do not we're not intentional about feedback.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Okay? And for me, it's something I I want to work on. So what I mean is that usually when to grow, we we look at the we record the podcast episode, but maybe listen to it and say, oh, it's good, it's wonderful. And then we move on to the next episode. So there is no feedback. So we're just doing, doing, doing, doing, hoping that when we keep doing, we will improve. I mean, we we we we we will we will improve, but in order to improve better, we have to like get feedback. And how do we do that? In my own case, as a host, I want to start sending surveys to guests. You know, surveys that will force them to actually give me feedback and not just say, oh, great episode, because you know, some some some guests they don't want to hurt your feelings. And like, you know, so just send them and say, okay, on a scale of three, what do you think about this episode? You know, could the episode be shorter or longer? You know, and you know, really get them to questions that um, you know, that force them to give feedback without it being like, you know, they're they're they're ins you know, insulting, because most guests are just kind. And that's for the host and the guest. And then if I'm doing guest appearance like this, I would love to, I have not set up a system like that, but I would love to, you know, send you a message after the conversation and say, okay, you know, what was the conversation like? You know, you know, and then you give me feedback. What did you think of the speaking? Did I talk too long? Or, you know, and things like that. And then I'll look at it and and and say, okay, yeah, Tony has given me feedback, but I'm going to look at the next five episodes and see the pattern, because five people cannot just lie and say, oh, you talk too much.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah, no, and I'll do the same, you know. I'd love to hear your feedback on me. But it was interesting. So I was listening to another podcast and it's on like yoga cults or something, and they came out and blatantly were talking about like, we don't need more feedback. And I guess like I was trying to think about why they were saying that, right? Because I agree with you, you need some sort of feedback to improve, right? You see it all the time in sports, right? If you lose a game, well, that's feedback that you clearly didn't do well to win the game. So it's like it was interesting to hear on this podcast that they didn't want any feedback, that they were just like, we're just gonna be ourselves and blah, blah, blah. What are your thoughts in terms of like authenticity behind what you do? Like, what does it mean to show up and be wisdom?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Um, for most of us, we've not expressed ourselves. Like we've not podcasting is the first time we're trying to express ourselves. So what does that mean is that in a sense, we're a babe in expressing ourselves to the public. And so, like a child, you know, a child who's just learning to speak. What do you tell the child? You tell the child, oh, you be your authentic self. You know, when they talk, don't don't you don't correct them and say, oh, you know, you have to say it like this or like this, or, you know, say it this way and and this way. You know, of course we give them feedback. They learn, you know, they listen to the way we talk and you know, they improve, they improve, and then they get better. And so what I like to see podcasting as I'm like, okay, I'm a babe in this industry. I'm a babe in come in expressing myself. And in order to, because I could keep doing the same thing again and again in terms of speaking, um interviewing the hosts, uh, the guests, you know, talking to them, and do it for a couple of roles and still not improve. And so what I'm looking at, okay, how am I talking? You know, and uh am I talking so looking at those criteria, I think the the problem is we think that when we're talking about about our authentic self and we think it's it's an authentic self that we're not, we don't want to improve. I mean, being authentic is not uh uh okay, how do I say this now? I'm talking, I'm not trying to be what I'm not, right? But I know that I can improve how I speak, I can, I know I can improve how I relate with people, right? And with that, I'm like, okay, how do I know what to improve? Not necessarily try to be someone else. How can I get, how can I refine, sharpen my sphere and my skills, not you know, try to be someone else. And I when you look at feedback from that perspective, then you're like, okay, yeah, how do I be my more authentic self?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

No, I really love that, right? Because it's fast, and I've you kind of said it really, you said it very well, actually. I can't wait to re-you know listen to that on the recording here. But it's like there's a difference between you being authentic and then a difference between you like upping your skills, right? And I think sometimes with feedback, it feels very personal, right? Like, like you said, kind of an insult to your who you are, but it's not. You are who you are, right? You're not anything else, right? You are who you are. So I really love that idea of like enhancing the skill, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yeah, I mean, you speak a certain way, I speak a certain way. However, I want to become a better speaker, right? So if I'm getting feedback, I'm not saying, oh, did I draw my sentence the way Tony would draw its sentence? No, I'm like, how do I become a better speaker? Right. And I don't, I'm not trying to be Tony, and Tony's not trying to be wisdom. Tony's asking, based on the way I speak, based on the way I, you know, the language I speak, how do I capture people's attention? How do I share my story? You know, this this is what we're trying to do, not necessarily trying to be what we're not. And I think that's where people get it wrong. They're like, okay, um, do I don't need feedback? Like, no, feedback, feedback is not is not critique. You know, um, and you know, if you have a way to set up the questions so you can get true feedback, that would be really, really, really nice.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

I love that. Can you give us an example? Maybe you've what is something so say someone has given you feedback over the years, you've been doing this. What have you liked about feedback that's resonated? And then what did you not like with feedback? That's the easier one. Start with the the yeah, what did you like about certain type of feedback that you were given?

SPEAKER_02 30:30

I think the first thing is that uh uh when people who are not um permitted to give feedback, so what I mean is uh it's like you could criticize the movie when you've not watched the movie. I don't think you you should if I if I catch you right. So in order for you to give me feedback, either I have interviewed you or you've listened to my podcast. Okay, that's one that goes without saying.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

And then the the other thing is uh giving specific feedback. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Right, so instead of saying uh, you know, your episode is terrible, that's not feedback. That is not feedback. Yeah, you're like, okay, I feel like you know your intro was a bit too long, you know, it was about nine seconds and you were just talking and talking and talking. I mean, if you could get into the meat of the content, that would be nice. It's like, okay, okay, okay. Now I understand what you what you're talking about, okay? And versus uh, oh, the episode is terrible. And I'm like, what am I supposed to do with that? You know. You know, feedback for me, I feel like it's an objective lens to see. It's like when you do correction, I don't know if you do it, you do they did it in your school. When we're young, we'll do um spellings assignments, mathematics assignment, and then we'll do the correction on the board and we'll exchange our sheets and mark. And then when the teacher would do the correction based on the fact that the teacher taught us already, it has to make sense. If it doesn't make sense, we'll question it. Yeah. And so I feel like it, because once the feedback comes in, you're like, oh wow, that's true. How come I missed it? Right? You know, so that's in a sense how good feedback looks like, right? It's not telling you that, oh, you did well in this uh stuff, it's awesome. It's like, oh, I mean, if you did plus one, you you did not carry this play, you forgot to add this to after doing the calculation. Oh, wow. And you're like, yeah, I missed it. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. That was like that was nice. And then you move on. Because, in a sense, we have a picture of where we're going to. And so when the feedback comes in, it makes sense compared to that pattern. Except, of course, the pattern is just completely different. And then instances where um if you're like trying to have an episode where you don't really send, you're just trying to have a terrible conversation and you're not looking to like grab people's attention, you just want to talk to people, that's the picture where you're going to. So if I give you feedback and say um you want to hook people, you want to get them to start. And like, you know, your your goal is just to talk to people. And in talking to people, you don't really hook people when you're talking to someone in real life. So it's not really to get listeners. And so the you might not make sense of the feedback because it doesn't fit into the big picture you're trying to go to, which doesn't mean that you're proud or anything, but we all have hosts, we all have our big picture. And so certain feedback doesn't, it's like you're trying to build a software product, and people are like, oh, put this feature, put this feature, put this feature. And you're like, no, no, this is, I mean, this is this software we're building, not this one.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

I guess, you know, wisdom, what about the medium of the feedback, right? You talked about the teacher, right? You got the, I can picture it now, right? Young wisdom is doing the math problem and the teacher's kind of saying, do this and that or whatever. I guess like today, everything is not everything, but a lot of stuff is online. What are your thoughts in terms of like giving feedback online and making it genuine and useful and practical to the bigger picture, if you will?

SPEAKER_02 33:59

I think if you've grown to the extent. I think if you're just starting, you know, you start on the podcast, your friends, your families, they're listening, they're supporting. Get them, if you can meet them in person, meet them online and ask. I think there are three questions. I can't remember the exact questions, but there are questions like um, it should the episode be long or short? They can pick the middle ground, they have to pick a side. And then they'll say, Oh, it should be long. Why? Why not, you know, but it should be short? Why? And then you oh, I listen to the episode when I walk, uh, go to work and I spend about 30 minutes in transit, and things like that start to come in, right? So you want to give them questions where they have to pick a side. They cannot just uh say, oh yeah, it's great, it's great, it's great. Yeah, or you say, should the episode uh be longer? It's like, oh no, um, it's good like this. You know, they cannot say it's good like this. You know, they have to pick a side. And that in a sense forces people to, you know, when you make it easy for people to give feedback, I think we don't we don't do that. Instead, we just say, what do you think of the episode? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great, it's great, it's great.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

So I guess how can you build a situation, uh setting where you can get that? I love that. I love I love where you're going with this. I want you to keep building on it.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Yeah, yeah. We have how we can build that. Or what one is we could have a survey form. I mean, I feel like that's the easiest, you know, could have a survey form. That's like in bulk. And then um what we could also do is um talk to people, you know. Yeah, talk to people. If you'll if someone is commenting and say, oh, um, I love this episode. This episode, um, you know, this is your podcast has been really be life-changing to me. And you could ask them, come in, I'm really trying to improve my podcast. I don't know if you'll be up for a 15-minute chat to really talk and see how this podcast has been, you know, changing the life. And then they'll show up and they say, Oh, yeah. And it's like, oh, what, you know, and you get to, it's like a soft, it's like software, it's like, oh, how are you using it? You know, you want to better understand the listener. And that lens will also help you understand whatever feedback they give. That's if you're making your podcast episode for the listener. You know, so the the goal determines on the the kind of feedback you're looking for. So if your podcast is just a way to become a better speaker, to be an uh articulate your thoughts and you know, the kind of feedback you're looking for is a bit different. You know, but if you're trying to build a product where it changes people's life, you know, it's a bit different too.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

So I kind of want to switch the topic slightly here. Obviously, it's still related to podcasting. So you and I both met on PodMatch. What are your thoughts? You know, I guess we're promoting PodMatch here, if you will, but I guess like, you know, what are your thoughts with the PodMatch community and why did you want to join? Why are you still a part of it?

SPEAKER_02 36:38

The Podmatch community is awesome. You know, it is awesome. Like if you've been on Podmatch for too long, it makes you lazy in a sense. Because now I I when I go outside podmatch, I have to follow up. I I have to mess, like I'm like, pfft, like something like, uh, not really. Let's let's let's just skip it. You know, so podmatch is is an amazing platform. They connect uh people. And the reason I love Podmatch is for someone who's busy, you know, with a lot of responsibility on your plate, and podcast is not really like the full-time thing you're doing, you you don't want, you want to spend, it's easier to get a yes when you're on the platform where the people there. It's like if you I'll give an example. If you're a guy who's trying to like uh find a girlfriend, it's easier to get a girlfriend if you go to maybe a singles conference with all the people who are like looking for a partner versus you know, you you're walking on the street and you're talking to five people, and all the five people they're either married. Yeah, right, right. I love this. Uh right. And then you're like, oh, this is these people hate me. And it's like, no, the context, right? Versus when you're on the platform, your people are looking for to connect, to find uh, you know, partners, you know, maybe a conference and where they're all single, and then you're like, oh yeah, hi. And so now it becomes a question of, oh, maybe you're not, you need to work on yourself versus oh, everybody hates me. And you know, that context matters. So with Podmatch, the people there, they really want to be on podcasts. And so it's easier to just get a yes. And it's not like you're messaging 20 people and they're like, oh, what's a podcast? Uh I don't really like that thing. I don't know. You know, these people like, I want to be on podcasts. And they're like, if the topic makes sense and the podcast makes sense, sure, let's do it. Sometimes you'd have to have to send a long pitch, you just say, Are you game? And they show up.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

No, I love that kind of distinction with walking down the street trying to pick someone up versus going on a dating site. And I just wanted to give a shout out to Alex and Alicia, you know, for with PodMatch 2, and obviously with us connecting wisdom. It's been a pleasure getting to know you and learn more about your journey. And with that, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show here. If listeners want to explore one of your multiple podcasts, where's a good place for them to land?

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Yeah, well, we talked about podcasting, so they can go to mypodcaststory.com and uh they can listen to podcasting and uh yeah. Yeah. And they can also listen to the podcast on all platforms, my podcast story, Spotify, Apple, YouTube, and everywhere they listen to their podcast. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Well, wisdom, thanks for being on the show today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

It's been uh it's been a blast.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

What I enjoyed most about this conversation is that it reminds us that great work is rarely about perfection, it's about practice. Whether you're creating a podcast, leading a team, or simply trying to communicate better with the people around you, growth comes from feedback, but feedback only works if you're paying attention. As we discussed, you have to watch the movie before you can review it. One of my favorite takeaways was the importance of intentional feedback. Most people never practice expressing themselves, yet they expect to become great communicators. Like any skill, though, it takes repetition, reflection, and the willingness to improve after every attempt. Here's a challenge for you this week. Pay attention to how you give feedback. Are you encouraging, honest, curious? Then ask yourself another question. How do you receive feedback? Do you become defensive or do you use it to grow? And no, you can't be counting social media likes as just your feedback, right? We're talking actual feedback here. And finally, ask better questions. Don't settle for did you like it? Ask questions that make people choose a side. Should a podcast episode be short or long, like wisdom was talking about? Why? Those why questions uncover stories, values, and insights that simple yes or no questions never will. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with someone who loves creating things. Leave a review and subscribe so you never miss another conversation. Until next time, remember, work may suck, but when you're building something that matters, learning from feedback, and helping ideas become reality, you might just find yourself liking it. We'll see you next time.